Hi everyone, welcome to our Blog!
Just wanted to say that we’re getting close to finishing the batch of 22 Fusions that we’re working on. I hope they’ll be ready for delivery by the end of July or the first week of August. I built a double batch this time so we would have somthing for sale on the website. As of now I think we have 9 or 10 still for sale. Richard will post the specs for you.
As a company we have found ourselves in a position, due to the rising costs of everything, that we have to raise our prices. This is not something I take lightly. I know how hard people work for their money, and I know I work awfully hard for my money.
You people that have purchased my guitars have been wonderful customers and some of you have turned into real friends. I thank everyone of you for making it possible for me to build these guitars.
With this being said I would like to ask you all if you have any thoughts on how much of an increase in price would be fair to both of us. I go to work every day and try to build the finest guitar available and I try to do this at a price point that is affordable. Without you my customers I’m out of business but if I don’t raise my prices I’ll be out of business also.
I just want to be fair to everyone. Thank you for your thoughts.
Chuck
July 15th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Nice Site layout for your blog. I am looking forward to reading more from you.
Tom Humes
July 17th, 2008 at 8:38 am
So here are my comments on pricing:
You and I often discussed that your original pricing was designed to impact the market quickly, and develop some enthusiastic customers. I view pricing as a strategy designed to attract customers, represent the quality of the product, provide a predictable and fair profit, and regulate the quantity of guitars produced by regulating demand.
With that in mind, a strategy for the price increase. Since I believe I represent your strongest market (having purchased two instruments with a Blues Queen currently on order) I will share my strategy for purchasing instruments. Everyone wants “a good deal”, but will invest in an instrument that can be seen as unique, rare, collectible, or, sonically superior to the other guitars in its competitive market. The competitors in your case are high end PRS, Suhr, Collings, Benedetto, Custom Shop Hamer, etc. Personally, I don’t seriously consider guitars that are priced over $4,000. There is something about that $3,999.00 magic threshold, cost wise. I don’t think that the guitar WITH options needs to come in under $3999.00, but I think the base price needs to reflect a respect for that $4,000 threshold of fear.
Are your guitars, as a value, worth more than $4,000.00? In my opinion, absolutely. The Collings sell for $5,000-$7,000. The PRS Hollowbody guitars, with 10 tops, sell for $4,000-$6,000. The Benedetto Bernie’s sell for $6,000-$7,000. The Hollowbody-Chambered Suhr’s with similar quality wood to your guitars, sells for $4,000-$6,000 with a bolt-on neck. Since you don’t sell to “dealers”, your customer base is the musician, not the music store….so pricing has to respect the artist’s ability and motivation to purchase. So I’m thinking that you want to thoughtfully approach that magic $4,000 threshold, regardless of value.
You can also take the “Far Side” approach to pricing. Gary Larson has a cartoon with a spider building a web at the bottom of a childrens slide, explaining to another spider, “I only have to catch one.” But I know you and Richard well enough to know that you believe in your product and have given up vacations for many years to get the instrument to your customer in a timely manner, and to build your customer base. The pricing should also afford you a vacation, my friend.
Just a thought,
symes
July 17th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Thank you, Bill. You’ve truly clarified some of the issues that we’ve been wrestling with. I have a spreadsheet with the prices of numerous other guitars. I have also gone back and checked our costs. None of these things really answer the question. I know how much we need to go up in order to be in and stay in the black - but that is only another datum.
Such things also don’t address what price increases in iffy economic times will do to our sales. Personally, I’d rather sell a few less guitars for a little more money - within reason, that cuts our labor costs, and saves Chuck a lot of sweat - he’s not 18 anymore and he’s a “hurtin pup” at the end of the day.
However, your comment about “thresholds of fear” gets to the heart of the dilemma.
Again, many thanks!
Rich
July 18th, 2008 at 12:29 am
Hey Rich! You guys are doing something amazing…thanks for including me. Can’t wait to get my custom Blues Queen Acoustic….oh, yes!
symes
July 18th, 2008 at 5:56 pm
We all have our different thresholds for what we are willing to pay for a guitar , and the professional I ordered is by far the most I have ever spent on a guitar. I feel the reason PRS and others can get higher prices for comparable or even lesser guitars is soley in their name and I know they will raise prices to whatever they can get someone to pay.
Chuck needs to get the word out and get a name for himself ,which he is doing a pretty good job of so far.
But the bottom line is Cp Thornton guitars needs to make money and make it worthwhile for Chuck to do it.
I think most people would accept a 5 % to 10% increase if they feel they are getting something special, which I think my professional will be. Now, if Chuck can just get Carlos S. to switch, he will be set for life.
July 19th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
In my opinion, you make a $5000 guitar right now. You are probably kicking yourself (I would be) for not raising them last year. In my business, we make small but consistent price increases so our customers can make a decision if they want to be incented to buy before the “annual” increase. So, maybe a 5% increase effective Oct 1 to make some room for customers to order/buy at the current rate, and a note that this is probably going to be repeated next year. You can’t apologize for raising prices; you didn’t drive up oil, etc. Just my thoughts, but you are already underpriced and 5% is still a steal.
Grant Castle
July 19th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
Hi Chuck,
It’s not possible for me to say where you should set your prices, but I can say that the two Jazz Elites you made for me were ridiculously underpriced. Even if the value of innovative and completely functional design isn’t considered, a guitar made with such high-quality materials and superb workmanship would be considerably more expensive from almost any other maker. It so happens that when I stumbled across your company a couple of years ago I was on the verge of commissioning a very similar instrument from another hand-builder. His price was $5000 for an instrument made from the same type and quality of materials. Frankly, it was that expense that made me hesitate and look for other options. I’m glad I found you, especially since your design is superior to the instrument I was considering having built.
I know it is a tricky matter setting the price point low enough so that working musicians like me can afford your instruments but so that your company can thrive and I’m sorry I can’t be more help.
all the best,
Scott Fields
July 22nd, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I agree, 10% would be justified.
I also agree with the above comment that the Thornton name needs to get out there more. Discussion on the gear page is nice, but a monthly 1/4 or 1/8 page ad in Vintage Guitar Magazine would both help spread the word, increase name recognition, help our purchased guitars retain their value, and allow people to compare the prices of the other boutique builders.
I know ad rates aren’t cheap, but I believe it would be a cost effective strategy in the long run.
Layne Yost
Elite #57
Blues Queen #141
July 22nd, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Dear Chuck,
I’ve admired your work for a couple of years now and wanted to drop you a note of encouragement and support as you endeavor to set a equitable price structure for your company. I hope you’re able to find a price point that balances the needs of the company, your customers, and your need to craft top quality instruments for guitar players.
I have no business background so I won’t attempt to offer any specific advice but I think you are currently priced below other luthiers I view in your segment of the market (e.g., McInturff, Melancon, Koll, Lentz) as well as the custom shops of the big US guitar companies.
The very best to you and your vision for CpThornton Guitars.
Sincerely,
Michael Smith
July 25th, 2008 at 12:04 am
Chuck - When I retired about 5 years ago, I owned an Ovation acoustic - the only guitar I’d owned for over 25 years. I began my first hobby with a goal of surrounding myself with the finest, best playing guitars on earth. In the course of my quest, I accumulated over 70 guitars, including D’Angelicos, PRSs, Heritages, Gibsons, G&Ls, Ibanezs, Martins and Taylors - some vintage, some new. I’m not talking low enders, either. Then, friend John introduced me to your fine guitars after he got his second one. After owning the D’Angelicos, PRSs, & Martins, I never thought for a moment that my first CPT Elite was overpriced. In fact, I immediately began selling my higher end guitars and replacing them with CPT models, because the craftsmanship and quality was in a whole different league from what I’d known. My visit to your shop was an eyeopener after touring other plants. As I await CPT #5 and #6 from this latest Fusion batch, I am of the opinion that you are WAAAAAYYYY under market. Gibson, Ibanez, Collings, Martin, Taylor, and D’Angelico all turn out fine instruments from their custom shops and don’t blink an eye about charging $4,000 - $10,000 and upwards for their good stuff. As a business consultant, I found that as my work and resourcefulness became more known and appreciated by clients, I could charge more - and actually take a break myself occasionally. After seeing your shop, observing your work ethic, AND experiencing FIRST HAND the finest instruments I’ve ever owned or played, I strongly urge you to raise your prices 10%. It has been almost 2 years since your last increase, and I can assure you that others mentioned above have had one or two since then. When players and collectors visit me and they have complete freedom to fondle and play anything in the harem, the ones that get the most admiration and respect are my CPTs. As the harem size diminishes and the CPT pieces increase, their “WOW” gets louder and the smiles get bigger. With the Fusion, you are making spectacular semis and solids for those who want to own and play the best. My opinion is that you do make the best and your prices should reflect that. To do otherwise is to risk understating how good they actually are. As more and more instruments get out there, the serious guitarists will realize what we already know. They won’t flinch at a lofty, respectable price - they’ll find a way to own it. Times are tough, but the CPT business must flourish. You deserve to cover your increasing costs and be rewarded well for your talents as much as we do. Add 10% and carry on, my friend.
July 25th, 2008 at 5:56 am
Let me start off by saying how great the whole Cp Thornton Guitars experience has been. I recently purchased Blues Queen #138 and the whole process from the first phone call, to the shop visit, to me never wanting to put the guitar down, has been exceptional. Chuck is a super guy who delivers a superb product at a more than reasonable price.
I think you could easily raise the price by 20% and still get the same amount of work. I feel that if someone is seriously in the market for what you have to offer, a $500 to $800 price difference probably won’t break them. At the same time, I must admit that price was a significant factor in my decision to purchase from you. I simply don’t want a $5K guitar to gig with. Is a price increase the only answer? Are there other ways to increase revenue? Ultimately, I think your pricing should be in line to support your stated vision, “…to create heirloom quality instruments for musicians who seek that rare balance between breath-taking beauty and engineering excellence.”